# Balance Suggestions to fix the Meta **URL:** \ **Category:** Balance Discussion\ **Tags:** balance\ **Created:** [January 18, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902 "2018-01-18T12:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ESofDawn](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ESofDawn](https://boards.faeria.com/u/ESofDawn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/1 "2018-01-18T12:18:46Z")
1. Make the Sky Yak + Aurora’s Creation interaction work in the following way: Creating a yak and playing it only adds +1 yak instead of doubling them, for example, when you play yak for the 4th time the result will be 5 yaks on board, then 6 etc. 2. Make Sky Whale a Legendary Card. 3. Make demon Wrangler 2D1W. 4. Make Khalim’s prayer 2D1W. 5. Make Underground Boss 7 cost with 5/6 stats (Same text). Boss is not playable right now, this allows him to be viable in both Mono Red and the Bargain archetype. 6. Completely rework Monkey Genius. (no balance can save him). Thanks for reading, Feel free to add suggestions/comment etc. ---
**Author:** ![Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/aasgier/32/2314_2.png) [@Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/u/Aasgier)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/2 "2018-01-18T13:19:12Z")
I think this is a very good start to balance changes. I especially like your Boss change - that is a completely new way of changing the Underground Boss and I think it’s a major improvement. Giving Bargain a new toy is nice too. However, adding on what you said about Monkey Genius (what I agree with), I think Whale can’t be saved really either. First, I think because Swallow isn’t worth keeping in the game. It is just broken. Second, making it Legendary doesn’t stop people from using Aurora’s Creation on it. Otherwise I agree. You can make it obviously a lot harder to put it into a landramp deck too, using a 2F2M2L2D land cost for example. ---
**Author:** ![Maihem](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/maihem/32/845_2.png) [@Maihem](https://boards.faeria.com/u/Maihem)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/3 "2018-01-18T13:30:29Z")
The low pull of card in Faeria is actually a problem for me to do a good balancing of certain overpowered card. IMO, Sky Whale legendary si a really good idea, but i think we will be able to extend this idea to a large amonth of card to make this game really more fun ! If we make for exemple Wish and Cristal Flower first version (Yea !!! they were fucking OP) legendary card, it can be really fun, and competitiv, and really interesting for deckbuilding, and interesting to watch in stream! I already give my idea that i think balance a game by nerf is bad for the game health, because we have the deception about card, and we always remember what they were, sad of what they become. I prefere boost low card to balance too powerfull card. ---
**Author:** ![Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/aasgier/32/2314_2.png) [@Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/u/Aasgier)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/4 "2018-01-18T13:51:34Z")
I don’t like to boost everything actually - if you want everything to get on par with the Whale you need to literally buff _every_ non-Legendary card in the game (even staples like Groundshaker). Not to mention that buffing everything also incites a huge cycle of powercreep which is… not ideal. However, what I do think is that for every card that receives a nerf, another underused card should be buffed. That way you get more of a feeling of a metashaking effect (though I am aware this is not ideal either, but it is better than neverending powercreep). Examples: Rebel Glider (Can now collect Faeria, +1 attack, +1 Faeria Cost); What is the point of this card? I get the flavour, but if it can’t collect, the point of a flying colourless card is moot. Maybe Path of Paradise shenanigans, but ehr… nah. Tiki Totem (+1 life): Worse than its direct competitor, the Overgrown Tower, and useless outside of Pandora. Even then it requires to be drawn early. However, with its life increased to 4 it is out of range of a lot of structure removal outside of Firebomb (or Groundshaker + Flame Burst/Command, making it a lot more ‘sticky’. Seed Sower (+1 life); currently useless, let’s give it a minor buff. I don’t want to make it cheaper as land ramp is strong enough as it is, but currently this creature is just bad. As such, I think making the creature itself better value is a better option. Blazing Salamander (+2 Attack, requires a third mountain): Another creature that no one uses and can use a buff. This change would make it quite different from the Emerald Salamander, but at 4/5 it’s a much more dangerous creature. It costs an additional mountain to compensate, however. Desert Twister (Gives +1 attack to targeted creature): Nobody uses Desert Twister -\> buff Desert Twister. ---
**Author:** ![xged](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/x/dfb087/32.png) [@xged](https://boards.faeria.com/u/xged)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/5 "2018-01-18T18:20:09Z")
> [@ESofDawn](#): > > Make the Sky Yak + Aurora’s Creation interaction work in the following way: Creating a yak and playing it only adds +1 yak instead of doubling them, for example, when you play yak for the 4th time the result will be 5 yaks on board, then 6 etc. This is a terrible suggestion. What would Aurora’s Creation text be like? “Add a copy of your creature to your hand. It costs 5f less. If you use this card on a Sky Yak, Sky Yak’s ability changes into ..”?? And why do you want to completely destroy an arch-type, which is already very rare (a meme)? And this is your nr. 1 concern (suggestion)? Really?! ---
**Author:** ![ESofDawn](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ESofDawn](https://boards.faeria.com/u/ESofDawn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/6 "2018-01-18T18:49:53Z")
you are biased xged, that’s all you play so you’re sensitive about this, there are number of ways to make a text in an understandable way (ill leave that for the devs to decide), this is indeed my #1 concern, in my opinion, this interaction is simply broken (even more so after the fact that they changed the text of the copies allowing you to copy ANY yak to get the same effect (not sue why they did that)). The deck is very strong when you abuse this interaction, covering the entire board with yaks for a very low cost and it’s extremely problematic with Gift of Rakoa, to me it’s absurd that such an interaction exist in a card game. I’m not here to convince you to agree with me, but to point out a cards and interactions that are clearly broken and hurt the game and suggest a solution. ---
**Author:** ![BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/bigchiller/32/2505_2.png) [@BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/u/BigChiller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/7 "2018-01-18T22:28:35Z")
> [@ESofDawn](#): > > Make the Sky Yak + Aurora’s Creation interaction work in the following way: Creating a yak and playing it only adds +1 yak instead of doubling them, for example, when you play yak for the 4th time the result will be 5 yaks on board, then 6 etc. This fix is not a good idea although I think that this combo is broken, too. However, I feel like the Sky Yak itself must be changed. The point is that the amount of Sky Yaks spawned is coupled to the number of Sky Yaks that died. How do you integrate this in a consistent and meaningful way so that after using a Creation on Sky Yak the amount of Sky Yaks that are spawned is increased by one? In my humble opinion, there should be simply a hard limit saying “spawn a Sky Yak for every Sky Yak that died in the match but not more than 3” (so 4 Sky Yaks per card at most) since this is the way the game designers initially intended the card to work. The idea was that the first Sky Yak is slightly undervalue and gets better with time so that there is some form of scaling while already being able to play the card in the early game (Leaping Fugo designed in the same spirit). By doing so one has to decide whether it is worth 5 Faeria to spawn 4 Sky Yaks (still good value in my eyes; compare it with Yak Attack). Greetings, BigChiller ---
**Author:** ![ESofDawn](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ESofDawn](https://boards.faeria.com/u/ESofDawn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/8 "2018-01-18T22:46:40Z")
yea, perhaps my sky yak + creation solution can be improved upon, i guess my point is that the combo is broken and something should be done about it, even if it’s not my suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![xged](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/x/dfb087/32.png) [@xged](https://boards.faeria.com/u/xged)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/9 "2018-01-18T23:11:10Z")
> [@ESofDawn](#): > > you are biased xged, that’s all you play so you’re sensitive about this That is false > [@ESofDawn](#): > > there are number of ways to make a text in an understandable way You say you know, that there are ways.. I do not believe you, because you had not gave an example as asked. To mention other card in a card’s text only as an exception to how card behaves is already a design nightmare and no dev would approve of that. I cannot think of a single instance of that kind of “design” in any card of any ccg. > [@ESofDawn](#): > > they changed the text of the copies What text change are you talking about it? > [@ESofDawn](#): > > The deck is very strong Is that why nobody (except me) plays this arch-type competitively? > [@ESofDawn](#): > > when you abuse this interaction Do you call “playing cards well” an “abusing interaction of cards”? ---
**Author:** ![BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/bigchiller/32/2505_2.png) [@BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/u/BigChiller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/10 "2018-01-18T23:20:08Z")
> [@xged](#): > > Do you call “playing cards well” an “abusing interaction of cards”? In my opinion this combo actually is a very good example of abusing. This might not offend you or anyone else because abusing is not cheating. You are simply using game mechanics in an unintended way to gain some very big advantage. The last statement might easily be considered true once the board is flodded with tons of Sky Yaks. 🙂 Greetings, BigChiller ---
**Author:** ![xged](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/x/dfb087/32.png) [@xged](https://boards.faeria.com/u/xged)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/11 "2018-01-18T23:21:18Z")
> [@BigChiller](#): > > unintended way Thats subjective. Where can I get a list of intended ways of playing cards? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/bigchiller/32/2505_2.png) [@BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/u/BigChiller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/12 "2018-01-18T23:26:36Z")
> [@xged](#): > > Thas subjective. Where can I get a list of intended ways of playing cards? 🙂 I mean that’s the problem with the term “abusing” after all. Is there a valid definition? I can not prove that the game designers did not have this combo in mind when designing this card but do you really think that the game designers feel good about a whole board which is flodded with Sky Yaks? Greetings, BigChiller ---
**Author:** ![xged](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/x/dfb087/32.png) [@xged](https://boards.faeria.com/u/xged)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/13 "2018-01-18T23:32:10Z")
> [@BigChiller](#): > > do you really think that the game designers feel good about a whole board which is flodded with Sky Yaks? Yes. That only happened to me once in my Faeria “career”, I cherish that moment 🙂 . Competitive decks tend to be consistent ones instead of combo-fun ones. Saying a meme deck must be completely destroyed over nerfing Y Rush is mind-boggling. ---
**Author:** ![BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/bigchiller/32/2505_2.png) [@BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/u/BigChiller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/14 "2018-01-18T23:41:21Z")
> [@xged](#): > > Competitive decks tend to be consistent ones instead of combo-fun. I have seen decks in the ranks 1 to 5 and also in god rank a good amount of times in the current season where decks were used which are entirely based around this combo (including Curious Biomancer or Ionas Smile to instantly pull all Sky Yaks). ---
**Author:** ![xged](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/x/dfb087/32.png) [@xged](https://boards.faeria.com/u/xged)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/15 "2018-01-18T23:46:07Z")
> [@BigChiller](#): > > I have seen decks in the ranks 1 to 5 and also in god rank a good amount of times in the current season where decks were used which are entirely based around this combo How does that negate the fact that “Competitive decks tend to be consistent ones instead of combo-fun”? I have played against this arch-type maybe 4 times total on the ladder in my whole Faeria “career” (~0.002% is that a significant number?). This arch-type is never present in any tournament. ---
**Author:** ![BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/bigchiller/32/2505_2.png) [@BigChiller](https://boards.faeria.com/u/BigChiller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/16 "2018-01-18T23:52:11Z")
> [@xged](#): > > How does that negate the fact that “Competitive decks tend to be consistent ones instead of combo-fun”? I interpreted your previous statement in the way that you wanted to say that this type of deck is not really played in ranked mode. Apologize if that was wrong. I just wanted to point out that this type of deck is played in ranked mode; that’s at least what I have observed. Enough from my side on the Sky Yak thing. There are other suggestions made in this topic, too. 🙂 Greetings ---
**Author:** ![Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/aasgier/32/2314_2.png) [@Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/u/Aasgier)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/17 "2018-01-19T09:54:49Z")
It is probably the strongest deck - it beats everything but Red Combat Control, Red Events, a lucky Rush and pre-Oversky Crackthorn (as it carries both Firestorm and Garudan). As for why it isn’t seen in tournaments, I have no idea. You do know the deck better than I do, so maybe you can talk about its flaws? I mean, sure Firestorm is a problem as well as Garudan (what the above decks all run), as well as just slamming it before it gets going, but otherwise I’ve faced it quite a few times with no success. Even Red Combat just loses if it doesn’t draw Firestorm. ---
**Author:** ![Vanvoudrof](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ac8455/32.png) [@Vanvoudrof](https://boards.faeria.com/u/Vanvoudrof)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/18 "2018-01-19T12:06:23Z")
I’m found of the suggested New Underground Boss ! What a great idea ! Let’s militate in favour of it ! But I think we should keep Whales as they are for the moment. There are many ways to counter this creature : flame burst, frogify, taunt, another whale… It can be frustrating but not invicible ! Azure SkyWhale, I like this card… Bye ---
**Author:** ![Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/user_avatar/boards.faeria.com/aasgier/32/2314_2.png) [@Aasgier](https://boards.faeria.com/u/Aasgier)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/19 "2018-01-19T14:03:24Z")
How is Frogify a counter? That kills the creature the Whale has swallowed too. Even Double Flame Burst is value for the Whale user - you use two cards to deal with one, and your creature can be at a completely useless spot on the board. Taunt is not a counter either - the Whale has already swallowed something and will just stay away from the Taunt (oh, and outside of the Ogre Battler and Skyward Swordfish, there is no Taunt user with 7+ base HP by default, so it’s an even trade at best). Opposing whale = fight fire with fire = RNG party, not a counter either. ---
**Author:** ![xged](https://boards.faeria.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/x/dfb087/32.png) [@xged](https://boards.faeria.com/u/xged)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902/20 "2018-01-19T17:43:36Z")
> [@Aasgier](#): > > It is probably the strongest deck WAT? > [@Aasgier](#): > > As for why it isn’t seen in tournaments Because it is not a tier-1 deck. It is weak to anything fast, then burn, RB, red > [@Aasgier](#): > > a lucky Rush You do not know what you are talking about. Y Rush is prob the worst match-up [Next page](https://boards.faeria.com/t/balance-suggestions-to-fix-the-meta/9902.md?page=2)