Yellow rush in the current patch

Balance Discussion
#1

There’s a lot of things to talk about here, from the fact that I usually end my games with around 7 less cards drawn than the aggro player, the fact that he doesn’t need to control faeria wells so much thanks to Khalim’s Prayer and haste creatures being able to gather while still hitting targets, or how he can just sit on his cards until he draws a good combo while i need to place my things down on the board for him to be completely aware of threats, or how impossible it is to gather faeria, stand on offensive deserts, block attack paths, and prevent good vampire placements at the same time.

But the only thing I find completely unfair is Zelous Crusader. It’s almost impossible to prevent the yellow player from getting in a few hits to the orb with a deck that runs any slower cards and is not specifically built to counter rush. So even if I manage to ward off the initial attack by not drawing any late game oriented cards, or thanks to sheer luck or outplay, they just put down this 9/9 or 11/11 creature that I’m no longer able to deal with, for a free win. This card allows the aggro player to extend the game and not be pressured to close out way too much, in my opinion.

I’d suggest to change Zelous Crusader to only gain +1/+0 per attacks to the orb, as kind of an offensive mirror image of Ruunin’s Avenger.

(Disclaimer: mono-green player perspective.)

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#2

I would have to agree with the yellow/desert being over powered, heck knows why they were buffed in the last patch

To add to what you said:
They are the only deck with a card that can destroy a unit completely without condition for only 6 mana!!! (Last Nightmare). the cloest thing froggity costs one less mana but 1) the space is still occupied 2) they unit is transformed into 2/2 3) it now has jump.

In combination of the cheap as fudge winged unit buff stacking and haste units - as a green/blue player primaryily there is so little that can be done.

I would like to hear others opinion on yellows balance and also comment if you play primarily yellow

#3

Yellow seems overly versatile compared to the other colors. All the other colors focus on a few strengths and have several things they can’t do in a mono deck. Yellow has cards for almost every situation and great rush cards on top of that.

It’s odd that they have orb healing, even though it’s mostly unnecessary and doesn’t really fit into their theme. They can also do an excessive amount of card draw for little cost.

Yellow mono decks are definitely the most annoying to play against. Especially the rush decks, which generate a lot of resources without having to do anything other than hit the orb. Meanwhile, you have to use all your faeria to defend against their rush and don’t have time to do faeria generation or card draw yourself. It’s not fun to play against at all.

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#4

Yes I completely agree with “overly versatile” the problem is they don’t have that downside like every other deck - they have become a jack of all trades and a buffed one at that.

They can still gather resource easily(flying) + haste units

Still have great buffs e.g. aviary +2/+2, +1/+1 if other flying on the board etc…

like I mentioned a card that destroys ANY creature for 6 mana!!! is also a standard card.

Haste units coming out the butt and very high DPS

Like you said even has a heal card.

#5

I think that the main offenses of yellow rush has to do with their cheap haste cards.
Oradrim monk is seriously too strong. Haste 2/1 for 3 faeria that means he will cost 2 faeria because he will also steal one faeria from one of your pools. This guy is like 3 faeria 2/1 gift : [gain 1 faeria, your opponent looses 1 faeria, draw a card, deal 2 dmg to your opponent] (because haste). If he is killed instantly by a 2 to 4 mana cost removal after being played he was very good already. if he sticks around for one more turn it’s basically over. I think that removing charge and giving him +1 hp would be the best solution to keep him in check. Even making him a 3/2 for 4 faeria withough haste with the draw effect would be more healthy and give room for some counterplay then straight up haste.

The second problem I have with yellow rush is Demon Wrangler. Now this guy is really ridiculous he can turn any crappy creature into a HUGE threat (like hmm Khalim’s follower, Deathwish Ghoul, Wind Soldier… yellow rush has a lot of very effective crappy craetures). 5/2 seems not too hard to deal with but it is very hard because the yellow rush player is so agressive and ruthless that you will end up out of removals and it doesn’t matter if a creature has 2 hp when you are out of removals because this thing will hit you face for 5 dmg per turn and you will die very quickly.

Khalim is also very strong I get it that he is a legendary and all but I feel that he would remain very good if the free followers he generates didn’t get cost reduced to 0. He would still be a huge threat both to face and faeria control (depending on the priorities of the yellow player) just less snowball completly out of control when he starts hitting you.

I have no problem with yellow removal. I know that a lot of people are mad because yellow is so versatile. I think that it’s okay for yellow to be so versatile they just need to be less about braindead rush and more general annoyance with their flyers, chargers and spells. I like the yellow theme as a splash or half color to my decks I just don’t enjoy getting rushed by an op yellow agro. I have left hearthstone because it has become so agro and rng orientated (I was multi legend freeze mage and rogue main) please do not turn faeria into the same thing.

I think that an AOE 2 dmg spell would help keep rush strategies in check (also to deal with these annoying blue frog army spam) There is a lack of board clears outside of the firestorm effect. Maybe a red card for 4 faeria and 3 mountains requirement it could be named “fire nova” and deal 2 dmg to every opponent creature. Or even a cheaper meteor effect that deals 2 dmg in an area (price to determine). Green could also use some form of situational removal like an effect that deals dmg to a creature (or non green creature) on one of your forests (“nature’s vengeance”, “fury of the wild”, 'avenging vines" or a similar name). Green is very strong at board control but if you fall behind because of a yellow rush you don’t have any comeback options other then play a huge taunt just in front of your face and hope that it doesn’t get removed by a last nightmare. And still you will loose control of the faeria pools and be unable to play most of your hand so even the huge taunt isn’t guaranteed to help you turn the tables.

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Growing Creatures
#6

I don’t have a problem with their removal specifically. It’s that they have so many tools in addition to their great rush cards. A rush deck shouldn’t have easy access to an event that allows them to kill any creature. The desert and faeria costs for Last Nightmare aren’t too hard to hit and they allow yellow to easily bypass any big creatures trying to stop their rush.

Ideally, I’d like yellow to be reworked so that their annoying haste creatures and 0 cost resource events are replaced with slower and more control oriented cards. Then they couldn’t do large amounts of damage to the orb and get more resources than their opponent at the same time. Yellow would be a strong color even without them and it would remove the strategies that aren’t fun to fight against.

#7

I got to say every Rush/Aggro deck I have seen are fine, except the mono yellow/desert deck. The only way to stop them is to get a really good hand / play red with tons of removal effect. I know that the dev don’t want to kill rush because It is healthy for the game but the yellow mono deck is a bit to powerful as it is right now. I’d consider tweaking Haste for move only and not attack and move. I’d rather have haste as a mechanics that lets you rush quickly to Faeria Wells or behind opponent line to put a land neer their well/orb than a I use 1 turn placing tiles in a straight line, drop a desert turn 2 haste chomp orb, turn 3 haste 2x chomp, turn 4 big threat or removal… and it goes on forever.

To be quick, Yellow Rush need to be nerfed, Yellow control need just a little bit of love.

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#8

I’ve had a lot of problems with yellow rush playing green and green/blue decks recently. If you are somehow able to trade evenly for a few rounds zealous crusader inevitably comes round to show you how you’ve just been wasting time. I really don’t know how it’s possible to deal with hastes, removal, khalims’s prayer, free faeria, khalim, and the icing on the top, Zealous Crusader. Can anyone tell me what options one has against this? Have there been any updates on this? The deck seems totally imbalanced from my green/green-blue perspective (this is the first time I’m ‘whining’ about balance :cry:).

(Edited English slightly -_-; )

#9

First, green and green blue isn’t the same.

With green, you’ll want to have taunts and big bodies to trade things like Dune Drake or the 5/4 Demon (or Crusader if need be). You’ll also want smaller bodies that can kill the 1 HP guys, and collect faeria defensively. Healing is absolutely useless, except in end game when you want to ensure you’re not going to get killed by surprise haste. The idea is to develop fast lands to cancel all the spots around your orb (don’t hesistate to builds two Forests/Explore +1 forest straight to meet you opponent and block its advance, if you can drop a creature there. Then, you fill with forests if you can, or double neutrals to stop your opponent from setting a land deep. Use things like Earthcraft or Elemental to speed the process, be careful of a haste then desert. That’s your priority. If you succeed, then you’ll want to set up harvesters on both sides, and you’ll slowly get the advantage back. The rush deck draws more than you, so you may even stay in defense and win by fatigue, or set up a counterattack by building double neutral, then forest and drop something like Verduran Force (3 turn killer, it’s a good counterattack). Your best creature in this matchup is the 5/6 Taunt (cant remember the name) which stops hastes and trades well or Living Willow (Willow’s good against hastes, but bad against big bodies, so try to play it with something else to defend it).

With green blue, it depends on what you play (Apex ? Enchant ? Something else ?). The same strategy might work, or you’ll want to build on the sides to double collect (maybe more if you use Sturdy Shell and manage to set it in the double collect position). The matchup should be harder than mono-green as you have to set up both colour of lands, as well as protect the most important spots, which are 1) the spot next to faeria well 1 tile away from orb, on each side (Siege spot), and the spot 1 tile away from orb, which let the opponent attack from two way, on each side (Assault spot).

In both cases, you want to avoid being hit as much as possible to avoid growing their Crusader : set up Taunts, put minions in the way/on desert tiles. Not an easy task, might work or not depending on both your hands and decks. And what’s important is to counterattack at some point. In a few games you might win by defending, but in most cases, if you only defend, your opponent will store resources and might launch a big attack that you won’t be able to defend. Once you’ve managed to defend correctly, you have to step up and bring him down before he stands up back. Also, blue has an edge over Crusader : Unbound Evolution.

That’s all for me, can’t say much more without knowing what you play, and it all depends on situations, but you have a rough picture of how to fight back. Good luck :slight_smile:

Also, if you need, you can ask for live coaching, we’d be glad to help :wink:

#10

Thank you for the great in depth answers :smiley:

I mostly like to play blue/green enchant (I assume it’s the deck based around gabrian enchant/enchantress type deck). I like to do, and figure, things out my own way (I’m an engineer ^^), probably to my own detriment, but I’ve kept adjusting my deck as I faced better and better players with good burn decks, blue decks, and now this scary yellow rush deck.

I use willows, shamanic dance, shrine, and apex while trying variations of additional cards like possessed Ursus, grizzly, feed, tethra, and eradon. I worked my way up the ladder pretty quickly and got to rank 12 last season then are started getting way more difficult especially when facing decent draws on strong burn, blue, and yellow rush decks. I also like the fact that I basically never came across a similar deck but maybe that’s just because it just doesn’t work at the higher level (Chocking sand for instance is one of those cards that this deck is especially bad against).

Maybe I’m also trying too hard to make a good all-round deck or need to try something more standard. I’ll give sturdy shell a try, I’ve always overlooked it because it’s aquatic. I also don’t use any of the cheap creatures enchantments because they cannot be buffed by gabrian and I feel they’d be nice fodder for burn but I’ll give them a try too, along with unbound. Hopefully I find a good combo before dropping down the ladder too much.

Thanks again, I’ll let you know if I’m still having trouble after trying out variations of your advice. Some coaching may be a very good idea a little way down the line.

(edited dodgy grammer)