Card changes (examples) - [Discussion]

Balance Discussion
#1

Hi @ all,

I asked myself, if i had the power to change cards, which ones would I change an how?
Let me show and explain my changes in in few examples.

All.jpg1071×646 273 KB

Three Wishes:
(Removed the cost reduction)
As I already mentioned in another thread, I think the cost-reduction is too strong.

Apex Predator:
(“Gain Attack and Life equal to any friendly creature’s”)
Apex Predator has the potential to grow to huge sizes. It shoult be a bit more difficult for the Apex-Player to reach those sizes… To be not able to copy an enemy’s creature should help.

Blood Singer:
(“Whenever a creature dies, deal 1 damage to its owner”)
As with many other cards, I think this one should have some kind of recoil.

Zealos Crusader:
(changed stats to 2/0 and the stats-gain to +2/+1)
It should be easier to deal with this one. Killing a 10/4 is easier than killing a 10/10. This Card should simply lose its “auto-win” mechanism…

Death Walker:
(changed stats to 0/3. Added the text: “Death Walker gains Attack and Life equal to the sacrificed creature’s”)
Come on guys, a 6/5 with Deathtouch for 3 faeria played offensively is horrible. In my opinion, Deathtouch should be something to be played defensively or as a faeria gatherer that can’t be killed without recoil.

Garudan:
(“Deals 3 damage to all adjacent enemy creatures”)
I think Garudan is simply too strong. If you want to play Garudan you should have to think more about positioning.
(Oh, I made a mistake: It should be “all adjacend enemy creatures”.)

Deathwish Ghoul:
(changed “last words” into “combat”)
The effect should be changed. A card, paying nearly always for itself is too strong. Giving this one the combat mechanism gives the opponent the possibility to kill it without triggering its effect.

Last Nightmare:
(“Destroy a creature. Inflict damage equal to the destroyed creatures Attack to your orb”)
This one really needs some kind of recoil!

Soul Drain:
(“Drain 2 Life from a creature. If it dies, its owner receives 2 healing”)
Recoil added… :wink:

Stormspawn:
(reduced the Faeria-gain to “5”)
And another card that pays its own costs.

Ok guys, what do you think about these changes? Which cards would you change if you were able to?

(As always: Please pardon my bad english. :wink: )

EDIT: The picture is a little to small. I had to combine all Pictures because I am only allowed to upload one Picture… :frowning:
I added the modified Card Texts to my explanations.

#2

Well, some cards should be changed for sure, the problem is, some will like it, others not and then there are those who would like a different change.

Regarding your changes, half of them seem good to me, but the other half I wouldn’t change (atleast not that way).

Three Wishes:
Never played it, never had to face it, but it should have something extra for that cost. Maybe draw 2 cards only and put the Faeria cost to 2 aswell (so everything is 2 = fun designer choice). The Three Wishes would be 4 life and 2 cards.

However, as I lack any experience with that card, this could make it unplayable. I actually still don’t know if the card needs a nerf. It’s a high cost card that has to have some effect and compared to Spellwhirl, it’s just fine.

Apex Predator:
Agree, but I would go the opposite way for flavor reasons. As a predator, it should be able to choose an opponent’s creature only.

A completely different idea I had would be to give it +1/+1 for each of your opponents creatures in play.

Blood Singer:
I think it’s just fine. Good card, no question about that.

Zealos Crusader:
The math alone tells me that this card is OP. Reducing the health of it seems to be a good way.

Death Walker:
I think it’s fine, but I agree, the deathtouch ability is just wrong on this card. It has a power of 6, why should it have deathtouch? Keep it as is, but remove deathtouch.

Garudan:
I think it’s fine IF the spell Firestorm wasn’t there. It’s way to similar and the math of Firestorm (may it see play or not) is just wrong. With firestorm in the game, the added “adjacent” would be ok, but I would like to see FIrestorm changed.

Firestorm:
Why not call it (Vulcanic) Erruption, a spell that lets you choose a hex and deals 3 damage to all adjacent creatures to that hex. Reduce the cost to 5 and it’s fine.

Deathwish Ghoul:
Agree

Last Nightmare:
Disagree heavily. Why shouldn’t there be a spell like this? It has a steep cost of 6 and needs 3 specific lands.
With your change the costs should be decreased significantly.

Soul Drain:
Disagree heavily. The spell is just fine and far away from being to good. It is and should be a common spell.
Seifers Wrath is already the much better spell, as dealing damage is much better than healing the same amount, as you start with only 20 (which can’t get beyong, too).

Stormspawn:
With that change, the card would be extremely bad. Maybe give back 8 only, but not less. I don’t see a need of change, though.

btw: your english is very fine (it’s not my native language, too)

#3

Here’s what I would change:

Gemsilk Faerie: Gains jump instead of Charge 2. Makes it more distinct from Sunsilk Faerie.

Apex Predator: 1/1 stats, loses jump. Lowers its power level to a reasonable amount.

Garudan: Gift deals 2 damage to all enemy creatures. Makes the AoE more manageable and gives a reason to use Firestorm instead of Garudan.

Firebringer: Stat gain capped at 7/7. It would still offer good value without growing too large.

Hate Seed: Minimum cost 2. It would prevent it from becoming too efficient.

Zealous Crusader: Gains +2/+1, capped at 10/6. This would make it much more feasible to kill by damage.

Battle Rager, Magnus, Tarum, Walking Fortress and Krog: Add immunity to transformations and hard removal, so they can be played without the risk of losing a lot of tempo.

Iona: Add immunity to direct damage. She dies too easily without it, making her ability useless most of the time.

Deathwish Ghoul: I agree with OP. It’s too powerful without a possible downside.

Death Walker: Costs 4, stats changed to 3/6. Makes it less powerful when offensively used.

Oradrim Sagittarius: Requires 2 deserts. It’s too powerful if played on turn 1.

Three Wishes: Costs 2 faeria and heals by 3. The current version gives too much value.

Soul Eater: Gains +2/+1. The current version doesn’t grow enough to be worth the land cost.

Warstorm Champion: 2/7 stats, gains +2/+1. Same reason as above.

Ignus, the First Flame: Now triggers from using any action on the action wheel. Removes the inconvenience of having to use +1.

Tale of the Old Turtle: Costs 5. It doesn’t give enough value from playing it, even if you draw all 3 creatures.

Cartographer: 1/2 stats. It’s not worth using over Farm Boy at 1/1.

Magda: Costs 5. The cost is slightly too low for the amount of value it can provide.

All cards with activate: Allow activating on the same turn they’re played and rebalance them accordingly. The turn’s delay makes them too slow.

Defender of the Homeland: 3/5 stats. It’s too weak to be worth using now.

Tiki Healer: 2/6 stats. Also too weak.

Everbloom Wisp: Costs 3. It’s too inefficient at 4.

Shaytan Vampire: Drains 1 life. 2 life makes it work too well as removal.

#4

Ok, my intention was to grant Death Walker its Deathtouch while reducing its Attack-Power. But your change should work either.

Ok, I think decreasing the cost is ok then. But with this card it is really to easy to bypass strong enemy defenses or either threats without any recoil. I think it’s fine to get a little damage if you want to get rid of a disturbing creature. At least it requires some thinking if it is truly worth to cast that spell over killing the creature by fighting.

#5

Wisdom: 3F. Choose one:

  • Draw 2 cards
  • Your opponent draws 6 cards
1 Like
#6

“stormspawn” pay 10 mana to get 4,5 with last words “gain 5 faeria”. Whats point of THIS nerf? Make it complitely dumb and useless card wich can waste you 10 mana?(realy dude 5 mana for 4,5 is nice(in retarded way) deal but 5 more only to get them after minions death-its just dumb).

Whats the point of three wishes without cost reduction?2 more cards? yeah nice in veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery late game in all other situations its just self rect card cz you cant even predict cards what you will get…

And all nerfs are the same-clearly you didnt think them through.

Only nerf i can agree with is apex predator-holy crap apex predator played after,for example, shaitan is just beyond any balance.

#7

Ok. At first, I wether can’t find a discussion nor any argument within your post.
So, why exactly would I nerf “Stormspawn”? Let’s do some math…

You play a card that costs you 10 Faeria and has 4/5 stats. I agree as far as the stats are not overwhelming regarding the costs at this point of the game. A short time later “Stormspawn” dies without doing anything while alive. You gain 10 Faeria and you see, “Stormspawn” has paid its own cost.

Now, let us asume, that “Stormspawn” kills an enemy creature, for example “Outland Ranger”. “Stormspawn” is still alive and has now created value. Next turn “Stormspawn” kills another small creature and dies itself. What happened? Right, you killed 2 (!) enemy creatures at the cost of 0 Faeria. This is very much the same as playing two 0-cost “Last Nightmare”.
You won’t deny, that this is a huge value. Even if it killed only one enemy creature, there is value for zero cost.

And now let us asume, that you received a discount on “Stormspawn” by a “Spring Mochi”…

Sorry, but I can’t see where the balance is?

Ok, so what’s the point?
Yes, you can’t predict which cards you will get, but let us asume it won’t be complete garbage, because most of the people I encounter on ladder aren’t playing garbage…
Honestly, the worst case is that you get a card like “Windborne Champion” for which you need to create 3 more desserts.
But look at the cards you can play immediatly for ridiculous cost because you already have at least two mountains, desserts, lakes and forrests…

=> Soul Drain for 0
=> Vampire for 5
=> Seifer’s Wrath for 0
=> Deathwish Ghoul for 1
=> Wind Soldier for 1, etc.

And again, I don’t think this is balanced, regarding that “Three Wishes” itself costs 0 Faeria.

Why? Maybe you’re right, but then give me examples.

#8

Three wishes is holding only in asumption what player WILL get something good(cz as you can see its traiding 1 card for 3) and you kinda forget what its not that easy to get 2x4 different colour lands,and even if you do you still may find what all this lands are not enought to play this cards. Yeah you may get lucky and get opponet with same lands as you play, but this card is already hard to play and hard to achive any constructed results.

Apex kinda nice but still its green,and usualy green means cheep giant motherfckers so i dont think this nerf gona achive any noticible result.

Blood singer-grind opponet and grind urself? Basicly selfloss if opponent plays minions healthier than yours.

Zealos and death walker-yeah why sand need lategame realy? lets trash all their late game cards except vampire and see how they gona pull this outs?

Garudan-10 mana 6-6,deal 3 dmg for nearby cretures- basicly you want to make him overpriced shaitan vampire who cant even get more health. Whats the point of him,dump some free mana?

Last nightmare-yay lets punch ourself in face with card wich main usage is avoiding punches in face.

Soul drain-ok i can see a point in this. Buts still this effect looks kinda weird with spell named soul drain.

#9

@ Knethaggis

You can’t do the math in that simple way when it comes to games like this. Before the creature does anything, you have to spend 10 Faeria, which is a lot! This will probably limit your Faeria for the next 2 rounds. So what did you get by now? Nothing good, as noone would ever consider playing a 4/5 for 10 Faeria.

Sure, when it dies, it’s nice to get the Faeria back, but if it wouldn’t have a good ability, it would be completely worthless.

Like I said, I can see it bringing back 8 Faeria only, but does it need that change?

Regarding your Last Nightmare change, you wrote “…it’s fine to get a little damage…”. No, it’s not a little damage it will probably be a lot of damage, as you rarely kill small creatures with it. It’s more like 5+ damage for ONE copy of it!
If you loose life by casting it, it should be like 3 damage, no matter what, but then it should cost 4 Faeria only.

However at a lower cost, the spell is just getting better, as it fits the gameplan. With a cost of 6, it’s not as easy to play.

#10

@ sobran

I agree with most, but Zealos gets way to strong, as it’s way to easy to deal damage at this point of the game. I don’t think the card itself is OP, but if you have all those haste creatures at hand, it gets OP ´because of them.

We talk about the math and compare other cards, but then a 8+/8+ creature with charge2 for 5 Faeria is fine? C’mon. He has a very valid point, reducing the max life of that beast, as it gets way to hard to kill otherwise.

I get your point comparing Garudan and the Vampire, but on the 2nd thought, no. You forgot the flying and charge2 plus the 1 extra damage he does.
However, as I wrote before, I like him the way he is, but then Firestorm needs a change (for the similarity alone!).

#11

@ Sobran

First, I really don’t think that “Death Walker” is a Late-Game-Card at all. Second, I simply don’t understand why a Deathtouch-creature needs to have 6 Attack-Power?!
For this, H8Man’s suggestion to take the Deathtouch away is pretty ok I think.

The “Zealos Crusader” is regularly played in Rush-Decks. For this, “rush” an “late game” are terms that exclude each other a little, at least in my opinion.
Never saw the Crusader played in other yellow Decks than Rush. Either way, its potential amount of life is to high.

I think that Garudan is too strong compared with the other 3 dragons. His impact on the board is huge, even more huge when you are able to play him twice a turn or a second one the turn after (which i have lately seen several times in specific “Three-Wishes-Decks”). I simply have the feeling that it should be changed to have a little less impact. So probably my nerf was too hard.

I don’t think that this is the card’s main usage… Bypassing enemy defenses is also a viable use. But hey, there are other ways to give it some kind of recoil. But it seems to me, that no one except me is really thinking that this spell should have a recoil at all… :open_mouth:

@ H8Man

Well, no. It doesn’t need that change necessarily. I only had the feeling that “Stormspawn” is quite the same as “Deathwish Ghoul” - a card paying its own cost. And in some point to me this is, as if both cards cost 0 Faeria.

Well, ok. Another possibility to add a recoil is to make it necessary to sacrifice an own creature in order to cast this spell. At least this would kind of fit the yellow Theme.

#12

Yeah and I would agree with that, BUT there is a huge difference in those two cards. The Ghoul costs 3 and is easy to cast, while the other costs 10 and needs a huge setup. I know that “free” cards are always problematic, but I think the big one is fine (at this moment), as it’s just a combo enabler.

Agree on that one, too. If it had a cost of 3, maybe 4 (depending on the lands needed) and you had to sacrifice a creature, I would like it for the same reason, it’s what yellow does.

That’s a completely other topic though, which I wanted to address at some point, as I dislike that some factions have the same abilitys (taunt @ red and green). Make them really different and put some of those abilitys on the neutral faction at higher costs.

#13

Ok id like to make my point clear: i hate facehunting decks and i love control and combo decks. This is why i get this nerfs kinda hit on my strategy and still make agro even better.

For example stormspawn COMPLETELY combo card, you will never play 10 mana card to get 4 mana for free. Its just not enough value for this tempo loss,and many bad things could happen to this card(or not-opponent may choose to let you have nice 4-5 10 mana minion a little bit longer then you expected and ruin some of your plans).

Back to nightmare,zelaous and death-yeah you can nerf em this way but as much as i have to say i think this nerf may be TOO HARD for retarded yelow rush to handle. Basicly if they cant dominate opponent on start, they only hope will be shaitans.

Garudan,actualy 3 dmg to all creatures is painfull for low mana high dmg minion-decks but overall its not reason to nerf it. Mb give him like 4\8 stats ,deal 2 dmg to every enemy minion? Or 3 dmg for ALL MINIONS?

#14

Stormspawn could be a problem when used combined with Feed the Forest, as a high faeria generator (and it used to draw a card on death, too), other than that, it’s a pretty heavy commitment for no fast outcome (not to mention the risk of getting it transformed), so I don’t see it getting below 8f, and I don’t feel that it’s an important card to nerf. It’s fundamentally different from Deathwish Ghoul which is an inexistant commitment, as it’s guaranteed to die soon and get its cost back in one turn a most (even if you have to sac it yourself for a death walker for instance). The idea of making it combat effect is interesting, but I’m afraid it then becomes too easy to remove through Groundshakers or Vampires (I think it’s fine if it drags a single removal like Soul Drain or Seifer’s Wrath, but not if it dies to AoE, so it would simply become a trash card).

As for Death Walker, it’s absolutely not a late-game card, it’s mostly an over-efficient rush tool to which there is no good response currently. And for Crusader, which is used only in a rush deck, I don’t see why it would be bad to drop it from its current godlike in lategame position. A rush deck doesn’t need and must not have a lategame, it must win (understand : get a winning position, like a few HP off which can be dealt later on) at the latest in midgame, afterwards it’s a deserved win for the defender.

For the Three wishes : I do believe they give too much value when played, as they also give information on the next few draws of opponent. the setup is not that hard thanks to Earthcraft, and after the first one is played, the others have no cost at all, so either lessen its value, just like Reath suggested, or make it legendary, so that its cost to play remains high anytime.

Apex Predator change should be opponent’s creatures instead of friendly, if that change is considered : this way, you avoid Apexes chain snowball (and it also fits more the theme of a predator)

Last Nightmare is fine as is, it’s a bad removal card which cost quite a lot,but we have to include because there’s nothing better. Just think that there are barely any creature which see play that you gain value from this removal. And the strikeback you propose is simply awful (it’s like gettng hit by the very same creature you removed, no way !)

Blood Singer is fine as is, it’s played only in burn decks, and it’s pretty vulnerable to cleans and pressure (and you should put pressure when playing against burn anyway. It’s a playable card, but by no means OP.

And lastly, Garudan is both too efficient, and too close to Firestorm in its current form. Once again, I would want it to be an AoE of 2 only (3 damage to ALL minions wouldn’t be a big change as it’s often used to clean a board to take it back), or a complete rework to give him an identity (the same way that Azarai was too close to a buffed Last Nightmare before its change). And its stats and cost cannot be change, as it’s in line with other dragons in other colors.

#15

@Knethaggis Well first, lets look at magic the gathering, Doom Blade 2 mana (1 swamp, 1 colorless) Destroy a non-black creature. Murder, 3mana (2 swamp, 1 colorless) Destroy Target Creature.

They literally have no draw back, except sometime they have color condition, and thats the only drawback I can see fit for it… and even then its not as efficient has in MTG. There’s is no solution to nerf Last Nightmare as it is pretty much fine, Yes it is really good, Yes it is strong, Yes it can kill any creature of any faeria amount, BUT! It is only 1 card for 6 of your faeria and 3 deserts making this card hard to play in a multi-colored deck. To be honest, Lets see how your nerf would affect Ycontrol vs Yrush, turn 5-7 your at about 10 Life due to opponent rush, you just finished stabilizing your enemy drop a Zealous Crusader wich Attack (even with your nerf) will be 10 :smiley: Now Ima Last Nightmare it and lose the game yeah!

By adding Last Nightmare a recoil you would nerf the card to oblivion. By reducing its cost you would make it OP.

This is all my own opinion tough.