How to "fix" the current meta jump/tempo

[luuu90]

This will be a post with my perferred balance changes for the next patch. I will include reasoning why I would like to see these changes and also some general thoughts for the future.

I know that now after release Abrakham wants to make as little changes as possible to cards, with this in mind I will try to find small solutions that still push the meta in a more comfortable direction. To me the meta is in the best spot if there are several viable high tier decks for each color. At least in terms of color variation we are in a very good spot. But some colors just have very dominant decks among them that leave no space for alternatives.

BLUE:

To begin with Blue I actually want to go back in the past and mention that I liked the Failed Experiment change, since this was the card that made blue7’s kind of broken and actually my suggestion back then was to make it 1 less faeria effective which is a significant change. However there happened a multinerf, which to me was okay for stormspawn, but changing Windfall was probably too much. Right now it is a Soul Pact that requires you to have 10 faeria. In order to accomplish that you either have to have a massive board lead, or just give up playing creatures for a couple of turns, which means you are not collecting and lose faeria anyway. Also don’t forget you lose 1 card draw for playing Windfall, which is worth 1 faeria… so in the end you will effectively increase the value of your faeria only by 1. So this is why i would plea to revert the Windfall change.

Windfall 10 faeria gain 13

Now with the danger of multinerfs in mind I want move over to Blue Jump. Probably one of the most hated decks to play against right now, due to it’s punishing efficiency and mobility. To me the key for mobility cards is high land requirements. That’s why nobody complains about Windstormchampion which is actually an incredible card , but just a lategame finisher. However nowawdays with lowlandrequirements games are decided very early on. Not only do you have the trade range of 1 extra field for jump creatures - prophet of tides allows you also to move over the map without making lands, which means you can reach every spot on the board with just 1 jump creature in front of your orb. If prophet was 3 lakes you could at least prevent people from using double neutral for the maximum jump range on turn 3.

Prophet of Tides 3 lakes

Next we have to talk about power creep and Triton Trainer. 5/5 stats worth and jump for 4 faeria is just insane, and not a big suprise we see this deck rise up as soon as the card got release. I played a similar midrange blue list before, but it wasn’t even as close as effective to the deck when Triton Trainer got in the game. Not only is it a protection to aoe , but it also allows you to break important damage thresholds in the game - 6 damage on warrior to kill Groundshakers, Seifer, Heralds etc… 5 damage on Ninja Toad, which is more damage from hand than Firebomb - so yeah, Ninja Toads was considered a rather weak card in the past, but the buff effect on a haste creature just made it a very powerful removal again. Compared to Courtjester with Trainer you can also control the effect of the buff, and you gain a 3/3 creature compared to a 0/2 so the power creep is real. I’m not a bit fan of overnerfs, so that’s why I would simply change the card to:

Triton Trainer, your next creature with jump gains +1/+2

The final change that has to happen in my eyes is about Mythmaker, similar to Prophet of Tides, it’s a snowball card that decides games early and with the big range of jump creatures on board can often not be played around - she is already considered the strongest card in the game , so a small nerf defenitely won’t hurt anyone. like for all the other powerhouses among the legendaries, I would like to see a land requirement increase , to make her a little bit slower, but at the same time also harder to splash - every deck with blue hybrid cards includes her automatically… this way she’s more of a blue identity card

Aurora Mythmaker 3 lakes

Some final changes that could be thought of but I don’t really care, increase the colossus reduction by 1. However I think this would be an overnerf to the whole deck, also I like the idea of having late game finishers with scaleing - in fact i would like to see other colors have similar viable options (green colossus, red colosssus, hate seeds)

Auroras Dream 4 lakes - the whole Failed Experiment synergy that enabled this card got nerfd I also don’t think it was ever broken at 3 lakes ,

Mystic Beast charge instead of jump ? i feel like a stats nerf could break the card - but charge is cleary a weaker ability than jump and requires more strategy with land requirement

Frogify to 4 lakes while adding other alternatives for hardremoval that offer counterplay. So of course big creatures get out of hand if hardremoval is not that viable. But I’m not a big fan of removal/swing cards that offer no counter player - I really like deathtouch creatures and maybe other effects for hardremoval where the board and positioning matters, and not stuff that can be simply played from hand. being on 4 lakes means you have at least some time to prepare for that

RED:

Red seems to be in a very good state actually, has lots of variety in deckbuild (combat, burn, bargain, classic control, etc…) I would however like to see a changes to Seifer with the same treatment as Mythmaker, for similar reasons. He’s just too strong, you shouldn’t win games only because you draw your powerful cards first - 3 mountain seifer actually makes him harder to play as t2 collector and harder to splash.

Seifer Blood Tyrant 3 mountains

the other card I would like to see a change is Flame burst. Red removal feels like it has no distinction , you have wrath for 2 cost 2 dmg , burst 3 cost 3 dmg , bomb for 4 cost 4 damage, to make things a big more interesting and give people and incentive to try firebomb I would like to see Flame burst be a 3 mountain card. makes it less effective to splash in burn/crackthorne decks which people disslike due to their ability to burst you down.

Flame burst 3 mountains

Also like mentioned before I would like to see a viable red colossus

YELLOW

Khalim turn 2 is probably the strongest opener you can have in the game and increases your winrate by a lot. Games shouldn’t be decided that much by early draws - the card snowballs too much, he’s just such an efficient and sturdy collector that doesn’t even need lands to double harvest and can even be used to go face with tempo plays.

Khalim 3 Desert

Flashwind is another card that has a very high impact for early game trades, a with similar reasoning to prophet of tides I would like to see a landrequirement increase.

Flashwind 3 Desert

Final Yellow card I want to discuss is Windstorm Charger. Probably the backbone of every non rush yellow deck. I’m not sure if yellow decks would suffer too much if he got nerfed, but the damage potential of this card just feels too much to me. He can easily take out 6 health creatures and is an incredibly effective double collector. I feel a nerf in attack damage would be reasonable, but it defenitely needs testing

Windstorm Charger gain 1 attack for each event played

(Charger will be less important for yellow if we had decent alternatives)

GREEN:

Green finally feels in a pretty good spot right now, but similar to the other mobilty cards I would like to see minor changes to Grovecaller for the same reasons

Sagami Grovecaller 3 Forests

The only truly problematic card for me is Voice of Truth a card I initially undervalued but provided with the right deck, it can be incredibly game deciding. It’s a rock paper scissor card that heavily coutners certain things and is very punishing for the meta - and not even that alone, it also has double usage as healing card (I would describe the impact similar to the old unbound evolution , despite the RNG ofc) but if you gain good value out of it it’s just too deciding and offers no counter player- that’s why I would like to see the card changed to have an adjacency requirement so the placement and board matters again. maybe 1 tile adjacent would be too hard to pull off, so I would suggest the range of 2 lands

Voice of Truth Restore a creature in the proximity of 2 tiles to it’s original stats

Would also like to see a viable Green Colossus that maybe encouraged building a different green decktype to what we have already.

Thanks for your attention

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EDIT

Some people are concerned that Hybrid decks would also get hit by these nerfs. While this is true in theory, none of my changes affect decks in the meta - except GR Crackthorne and RY Burn in a very small way (Flame Burst/Seifer Blood Tyrant),

However to fix the problem of Hybrid decks not having a solid early game we need

1. low requirment hybrid creatures you can play turn 2 (for example 1 mountain 1 late req) this is something we’ll hopefully see in expansions…

2. we could simply fix Explorers and make them viable by letting them get the stat bonus of controling colored lands while they are already in play (similar to gabrian archon) … so you have 1 forest and an explorer in play, you play the second forest and he gains +0/+2

[J0k3se]

Hey Luuu! Thanks for writing this post

I agree with your suggested changes! And yeah, Windstorm Charger is such a strong card for 3F.

[Serrakura]

The problem with increasing the land requirements for many cards is that it makes the cards less playable in multi-colored decks while only slowing down mono-color decks a little bit.

Right now, there is only one competitive multi-colored deck (RG Crackthorn), because multi-colored decks are at a huge disadvantage compared to mono-colored decks because they have to build too many special lands to get rolling, and end up losing tempo to mono-colored decks who can take full advantage of the power wheel sooner.

[ArchSight]

I agree with upping land requirements but 3 special land requirements isn’t going to keep the card in single color decks so multicolored decks will still have the option of using them.

Voice of truth can be counter played by high base stat creatures and not doing pre-buffs. Buff when going to trade. That’s a counter for it.

Voice of Truth was implemented to be a counter to high stat pre-buffed creatures. Blue has frogify and Mirror phantasm with creation. Yellow has Last Nightmare and deathtouch. Green having one card that can be counter played unlike frogify and last nightmare is fair in the current balance. It’s only 3 cards to avoid from green unlike the many options that blue and yellow has.
Possible they should have increasing land requirements for all hard removal or removal like cards like Voice of Truth so they can’t be mixed. That could lower the possible amount to deal with from a deck.

Greens Colossus is viable to use except for the fact that the amount of land generation green will have to put into the deck will make it’s mid game weak due to less buffs or not enough other viable creatures to be put into the deck. I think a new creature card that does multiple buffs for creatures based on large amounts of forest generation would help with this problem.

[luuu90]

there are alternatives for low requirment cards that you can fit into multi colored decks, also the mentioned changed don’t really affect any existing multicolor deck right now other than GR crackthorne which is considered a t1 deck anyway

if you want fast multicolored decks it’s a design question to bring new cards with for example 1xMountain 1xLake requirement, so you can play them on turn 2 in these decks - but if you don’t slow down the current tempo/midrange decks the meta will stay snowbally and unfun to play because games are decided by openers

[Akagisha]

Nice write up and I agree with all these changes!! I hope they consider them and make these changes!! It would make the meta more healthy!

[MaxisZ]

I agree with @Serrakura that adding land requirement will simply make these cards unplayable for multi-colors decks.
Agree with @ArchSight: green has a single “removal” and not the best - Voice of Truth.
IMHO Abrakam must diversify meta: intensify a clean burn, add discard and resurrection mechanic, work out different control options, etc. And carefully tuning is needed but not huge nerf like Lord of Terror kill.
Tempo meta also generated by the mechanics hitting orb without trade (https://boards.faeria.com/t/simple-and-elegant-way-to-balance-rush-in-faeria/) It seems if we only look for a nerf jump/tempo without changing the mechanics then we have to kill the jump/charge generally. But this is a bad decision (as Lord of Terror).

[Blaze]

Good Idea to nerf everything while we have only problem with Blue jump and Yellow Spell lol.

[Xaxazak]

I’m hovering around rank 9 (although I mainly play fun decks which hurts rank lots), so this isn’t a god-level critique.

I agree with most ideas, especially frogify, mythmaker, windstorm charger, voice of truth.

• Windfall 10 faeria gain 13: Mildly agree. I generally get annoyed when I spellwhirl it.
• Prophet of Tides 3 lakes: Mildly disagree. I like it being a thinking card though and I don’t really want to nerf those too much.
• Triton Trainer, your next creature with jump gains +1/+2: Agree.
• Aurora Mythmaker 3 lakes: Agree.
• Auroras Dream 4 lakes: Agree. It also gives more warning for Dream Reaver.
• Mystic Beast charge instead of jump: Ok.
• Frogify to 4 lakes: Agree, needs a nerf. Too good in mixed decks - I almost always use 3.
• Seifer Blood Tyrant 3 mountains: Disagree, he’s slightly weak IMHO.
• Flame burst 3 mountains: Slightly disagree. Doesn’t need a nerf and IMHO should be available for mixed decks.
• Khalim 3 Desert: Ok.
• Flashwind 3 Desert: Slightly disagree. Like flame burst, doesn’t need a nerf and IMHO should be available for mixed decks. Yellow has fewer decently-multicolor cards IMHO.
• Windstorm Charger gain 1 attack for each event played: Agree, needs a nerf.
• Sagami Grovecaller 3 Forests: Ok. I’d prefer +1 life +1 faeria though.
• Voice of Truth Restore a creature in the proximity of 2 tiles to it’s original stats: I’d like to see the game move more in this direction - more importance on the board and positioning.

[quote=“luuu90, post:1, topic:6760”]
increase the colossus reduction by 1
[/quote]Do you mean:

• reduce by 2 (minimum 4)?
• reduce by 1 (minimum 3)?
• reduce by 1 (minimum 5)?

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Plus, what about Krog?

[Decabytes]

Plus, what about Krog?

Unfortunately I don’t believe krog was ever meant to be viable. He is more of just a meme legendary (which kinda sucks if you are free to play and then you pull him from a chest)

[Xaxazak]

Unfortunately I don’t believe krog was ever meant to be viable

So, surely he needs a nerf?

[Kleuhu]

we could simply fix Explorers and make them viable by letting them get the stat bonus of controling colored lands while they are already in play (similar to gabrian archon) … so you have 1 forest and an explorer in play, you play the second forest and he gains +0/+2

Just jumping in to say that I think this would make much more sense imo, yes, low land requirements hybrid cards could be introduced, but I think these situations should be where neutral minions shine.
Atm, it feels like most neutral minions are useless except a few select ones for their unique abilities (Syland Horsemaster, Outland Ranger), it just feels bad.

[Jeffbert]

I know it’s a bit early to tell but do you think the problems you mentioned could be solved by releasing more cards?
https://boards.faeria.com/t/faeria-friday-it-begins-with-a-smile/6804

And once the cards are released you should do a review
Thank you!

[kuromikuro]

I agree with your suggestions but windstorm charger gaining 1 attack for each event, its like youre saying dont play yellow. Also i would like a see a rework on:

Windborne Champion: 5 desert —> 4 desert or haste(op i think but its an epic card so maybe)
Iona, Beloved by all: give her haste(cant give her that nickname only when taunt was available lol)
Oradrim Monk and Khalim’s Follower: 1 hp —> 2 hp (to avoid being killed in one turn by Groundshaker)

[Xaxazak]

[quote=“kuromikuro, post:14, topic:6760”]
its like youre saying dont play yellow.
[/quote]Do you mostly play yellow?

Yellow event is the strongest according to many top people I hear. Yellow by itself is the strongest vs mid-levels according to what’s most seems complained about (YRush). Windstorm Charger is one of the top OP card complaints (my guess is charger plus Aurora, Khalim, Triton Trainer as top 4).

That’s what I’m getting from the forum comments at least. If that’s true it probably needs a small nerf.
I think his suggested blue nerfs were more significant, too.

[kuromikuro]

Do you mostly play yellow?

Yes, I play mostly yellow because im not really into the crackthorn meta(taunt + red events) where in turn 2 you see 2 living willows and the rest follows(I know you know it). This meta for me is what you call “Cheese”, doesn’t require a lot of thinking just spam and you win.

With regards to blue, I think changing Prophet of Tides to “move an uncontested land you control once” is good enough for a nerf.

[Xaxazak]

What about (Windstorm Charger):

[quote]Charge 2
Whenever you play an event, gain +1/+0 and +1 charge this turn. [/quote]
(+1 charge = moves 1 space further, if that’s not clear).
Less of a nerf, but still a nerf. I don’t think you need a damage cap if it’s only +1.

[CharlesVane]

I see the monthly cup winner(congratulations) used a virtually mono blue deck which seems to indicate that it needs to be adjusted. i have played a red deck for some time and disagree that it is in a good state. Unfortunately I was one of the unlucky ones who could not purchase the full decks.

Blue decks are highly mobile and yellow decks are a force also. I have tried using Battle Rager with a safeguard but noticed it will defeat another card in combat but the safeguard stops damage to the opponent.

From a personal view could you make Frogify a legendary so only one per deck.

[DavidFindley]

I personally appreciate the boost to neutral , which I liked to play.

…But I wonder if neutral was ever intended to be ‘viable’ competitively…?

[Decabytes]

I like neutral decks as well, but it does feel like they were never meant to be played as mono decks.