Warning ! Random which kills the game!

There are three main RNG aspects in Faeria:

  1. Card draw dependence. Draw RNG is huge with a 3-cards hand of 30-cards deck. For example, top-1 Ytempo deck can destroy any deck when you got necessary cards and lose any deck when the cards go bad. This aspect is even worse than in a casual HS ! IMHO 30-cards deck can completely allow 4-cards hand !
  2. Primitive mooligan. I do not know CCG with a similar poor mulligan. Faeria must have a mulligan with a black list. Because an unfortunate mooligan can ruin your early game.
  3. “Turn 4” problem. The early killing of the first enemy collector and the collection from the enemys well is a snowball that can not be stopped. This is the turn 3-4-5 in fact. Even after the patch, this problem is not solved. We are forced to aggressively control the wells due to Faeria mechanics. Player who got lucky buff or movement trick first wins “Turn 4” and frequently wins the game.

Аll specified RNG is multiplied by OP cards. In Faeria we have tons of unbalanced cards with double value (Azure Skywhale, Frog-Tosser, Aurora, Fugoro, Manta Rider etc.). The sequence of these cards makes the game impossible for an opponent who did not draw instant answers.

At the same time, Faeria has the most difficult game play in CCG market. So the core question: for what target audience is the game?
For casual audience who likes HS or Blackjack etc.?
For intelligent audience who likes classic CCG or Bridge etc.?
I’m afraid that both audiences will not find their interest in the game for the reasons indicated above. According to Faeria mechanics, Faeria could be a game for intelligent audience. If you think the same way take action against RNG !

Well, according to your logic I’m not intelligent, because I like the current state of Faeria and I like the RNG aspect in CCGs (drawing from a randomized deck) in general. I think that Faeria has great proportions between strategy (chess-like) and RNG (card draw). If you hate RNG so much and you associate it with casual (non-intelligent?) audience, why you’re not playing chess instead? Maybe because they’re kind of boring in the long run and you don’t want your video game to be boring? I think that Faeria should be intellectually challenging, but in the same time - fun. Which is the current state of the game IMHO.

  1. 4-cards first hand would be OK, I’d definitely try to test it, but considering that you can +1 card draw every turn, I think that 3 cards makes more sense when looking on an entire match duration.
  2. And which “classic CCG” is unaffected by bad draws? Isn’t that just a main characteristic of a card games in general? The fact that you can choose which card(s) you want to redraw makes the mulligan in Faeria less primitive than in most classic CCGs (MTG).
  3. Well, Faeria wells was a game design choice and IMHO it works great. There are many strategies to control the board (or not and go aggressively to the orb). It’s just a matter of good balancing, which is what the Faeria team is doing / working on.

Yes, some cards are better than others, like some chess figures are better than others. I don’t see what’s wrong with that? If a card turns out to be too powerful, it’s nerfed. Simple as that. Good card sequencing in match requires luck, sure, but it also requires skill and strategy. And there are some cards-answers in Faeria, which can open a comeback opportunity.

Nonetheless, I agree that it would be bad if Faeria game designers would decide to put more RNG-related cards in the upcoming expansions. I think Red has the most random effect cards now (I’m kind of OK with that, red was always “chaotic” for me in MTG), and it’s very risky to make more that kind of cards spreading to different colours also. So yes, be careful with adding more RNG to the game, but don’t remove it completely.

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I second what Spass is saying.
There are a few things in current Faeria I don’t like which mostly refer to game balance and a select group of Oversky cards (Swallow in general, Frog Tosser), but it already has less RNG (and on that note, a better Mulligan system too) than any other online card game I’ve played.

I also agree with that we really don’t need more RNG-related cards. Crackthorn Beast especially can be woefully out of line, and I feel making Crackthorn Beast a ‘clean’ card without any RNG would be an improvement, but I don’t mind any of the other RNG cards that much. Gemshell Tortoise enables its own archetype but it’s in the end not a top deck, there is Bloomsprite which is sometimes used in GY Sacrifice, but most other RNG-based cards aren’t used outside of meme decks (Orosei), except Luuu’s Blood Rain, but that deck prefers to use its RNG-heavy cards in instances where there’s as little RNG as possible with those.

I do however, agree with the original poster that there are some OP cards in dire need of adressing, most notably the Swallow mechanic and Frog Tosser. But there’s a different thread to talk about that.

Also, you can play around Turn 4 movement tricks if you have no answers ^^ . There are some crazy exceptions with Yellow Tempo, but Horsemaster can definately be played around and in Yellow Tempo it means that your opponent probably has no cards in hand left in exchange for killing your collector…

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Gotta say I also disagree with the OP. Granted, I’ve only been playing for just over a month and I’m only in rank 9 for now, though I can say in my defense that I’ve gotten a 9-win pandora. During this time I’ve had a very pleasant experience and usually when I lose I can think of various plays where I could have made a better choice and most likely changed the outcome.

I’ve had quite a few game where I’m losing and turn the tables back to win and vice-versa. It also seems to me that there are plenty of cards that allow strong comebacks and must be played around skillfully to avoid getting outplayed.

Regarding the mulligan, it seems to be exactly the same as most other CCGs so I don’t know why you would say it’s bad. The fact that you don’t lose unused faeria goes a very long way in mitigating bad hands and usually the difference from a good hand to a not so good hand is one faeria lost because you were unable to play a 3 cost, 1 special land or less creature on the first turn.

Of course there are those god hands that will almost win you the game unless your opponent gets an equivalent draw but I find those happen rarely, exactly the same as most other CCGs. This is an accepted consequence of having randomness in card draw.

As the others said before, there are a few random effects in the cards themselves but the damage based effects can usually be controlled by controlling the board. There isn’t much you can do about the card draw random effects except account for probabilities of drawing certain cards, but that, again, is similar to how other CCGs work. Personally, I prefer fewer of those or having their randomness more controlled, but it is important to understand that there are many types of people who play CCGs and if you look at the articles that CCG designers have written (for example Mark Rosewater), their research has shown that this kind of randomness is extremely important in keeping the game fresh and attracting different types of players.

By the way, if you really want to know if a particular characteristic is “killing” a game, you need to look at competitive play. If the people winning the tournaments are generally complaining about something, then that is probably worth tweaking, but most cases of people complaining about randomness usually turns out to be bias.

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  1. Draw RNG is actually lower than in traditional CCGs because you can choose to draw twice per turn. (and you should be choosing this often)
  2. Most mulligans are a design choice. I’ve seen some good ideas but none that I think would definitively improve the game, only shift the design a little.
  3. You call it a problem but again this is a design choice. People don’t quit after turn 4 because it is still possible to win(and at higher levels upsets happen often), but playing the early game right certainly sets the most experienced apart from the rest. Additionally, the Oversky expansion focused a lot on high land requirement decks, opening up more options for players that like late-game decks.

On a personal note, I prefer Faeria’s emphasis on early game advantage over other CCGs. You don’t waste brain power to get that early advantage only to have it mean nothing a few turns later. Every land matters. Every card played matters. Every turn matters. That’s why I play Faeria.

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You chose to participate in an RNG-based card game. RNG is a core element that the game is built on. If you’re not keen on it, there are piles of non-RNG games (and I usually prefer no RNG (eg games like Hive)). But it’s nice to have variety. But asking for its removal is like choosing to go to a vege restaurant then suggesting they serve more meat.

I do understand posts complaining about specific parts of the RNG system (such as the many ones on banning mulligan redraws), but you seem to be going after all of RNG.


RNG and skill can co-exist, and managing RNG is actually a skill of its own (weighing the odds in a given situation). RNG is like statistical noise - the more samples (games) you have, the less it matters. So just play lots :slight_smile:

That said, I think the tournaments need way more games as they need the skill to shine through in a fixed period.


I do agree about the side comments on balance though. I’m currently on long hiatus until (or if, unfortunately) swallow gets fixed. I played hundreds of games after it was released and after the last swallow balance, so I’m pretty sure I got a statistically fair impression of it.

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