Why all the Pandora RNG - its become a lottery

Feedback and Suggestions
#1

While all the random card effects are fun I am not sure I like it. The game is already random with the drafting, and some of the artifact effects completely destroy good games. For example, replace creatures with ones costing 2F more - suddenly the entire game is changed and if the game was somewhat even then who has the advantage is entirely RNG (and its not very net fun when he pulls the legendary).
Another one, I have a 4/4 and he has a 3/4, Halve all values and I have lost my advantage
I can see this could be a good fun idea, the artifacts have led to some really amusing and interesting moments - but to me Pandora is where you pay 200 gold to get an even playing field (only skill), and get rewarded for good play with nice prizes. All of the RNG means that there is far less reward for skill - results are more of a lottery. It also feels really unfair when you pay 200 gold (in the future, when keys aren’t so easy to get), then lose to something completely out of your control.
I love this artifact idea, it is truly amazing, but I feel this RNG should not be somewhere competitive. If pandora was low risk/reward I would love the idea, but it is the opposite. Maybe I’ll just have to get used to the idea and adjust deck design to cope with the artifacts.
And I’m not just saying this because I lost 4 in a row. :yum:

Keep up the good work devs
Womble

3 Likes
#2

I second that! We need pure skill arena not another one HS piece of RNG.

1 Like
#3

Completely agreed. Forget strategy in Pandora mode. RNG is king, for instance if your opponent gets Feast before you do he’ll most likely destroy your board, and then you’ll never get a chance to recover. These random artifact effects feel like they’d be more at home in an occasional for-■■■■-and-giggles game mode such as Hearthstone’s Tavern Brawls.

As it is, Abrakam have balls to ask you twice the currency of a booster pack to play this mess. I know I won’t be coming back until they change it to be more similar to Hearthstone’s Arena or Spellweaver’s Trials.

#4

Don’t get me wrong, the game mode is loads of fun to play and a really cool, interesting idea.
I guess my worry is that it feels like it has a competitive cost/reward system in a recreational/fun game mode

#5

Too much RNG, it is not fun, game has enough RNG being a card game and pandora even more being a draft.

RNG should be taken off the game as much as possible.

#6

Well, is that really a surprise?? I mean, They made it pretty clear what there intentions are. Competitive play is not something associated with Pandora.
It might be possible that it is even intended to be kind of a lottery… just my 2 cents.

If we get too much RNG in ranked play… then it’s time to riot :slight_smile:

"What is Pandora?
As we discussed in detail in our last Faeria Friday post[faeria.com], Pandora is meant to be a completely different experience from normal constructed play. Casual, exciting, and unpredictable are three words you could use to describe the intended experience.

Sit down, draft a deck, have fun. That’s what you should expect from Pandora. " -Atmaz

#7

“Sit down, draft a deck, have fun.” RNG is not fun, imo.

#8

But it is “Casual, exciting, and unpredictable”, isn’t it?
So they delivered on there promise/intended experience. That is why it’s not a surprise that Pandora turned out to be this way.

I do agree though. Most RNG is not fun. But if Abrakam keeps it mostly out of ranked play, and put it in Pandora for people who like it…good compromise, imho.

#9

You have a point there. But i still dislike it. Should be better if they got rid of heavy RNG cards on ranked, and put all the RNG they want on pandora. That way, at least ranked would be more skill based.

#10

Well said Garandou. I agree, “the casual, exciting and unpredictable” is well delivered, it is just that most of the time casual and unpredictable don’t really fit with having a high cost of entry (200 gold), with significant reward for doing well.
Plus, I had 4 wins yesterday and only got 150 gold, how many do I need to win before I start actually earning gold? (I did get the key free, but in the future we won’t)

#11

I can see where you’re coming from. But actually, the , “casual, exciting and unpredictable” part and the cost/reward system do fit fairly well, if you think of Pandora with gambling in mind. You bet some money, roll the dice and might win a lot more then you invested. Or you lose and pay for the winnings of others.
It’s all about perspective i guess.

And about the “4 wins -150 gold”, here is another quote…

“Please note we have much more special rewards planned for Pandora. This is a temporary reward system. We expect to implement the first, small form of this special reward system tomorrow, but will continue to expand upon it as time goes on.”

#12

I have to say, the more I play the more I enjoy it. You need to create a different style of deck to adapt to the unique play style (frogify OP!) but it is great fun!!
The “special rewards” sound very exciting, thanks for sharing that!
It will be interesting to see if people are prepared to pay for this mode?
Cheers
Womble

#13

I too feel too much like lottery ticket. When nothing happens or just few small events than it’s okay. But several times i have won or lost just because pandora cards were favoring me or my opponent. it was fun first few times. Now when i win i don’t have feeling it was because my skill or when i loose despite my skill i feel cheated. I think the artifacts are cool but maybe need toning down or making them more rare or controllable in some fashion.

#14

First off let me start by saying I love RNG in games, that’s why I like playing Board games, Card games, and games with Dice rolls.
The whole idea of RNG to adapt with what you get is a lot of fun and makes games dynamic and replayable.
I think Pandora almost nails the RNG concept.
First off, the Deck creation is amazing, you don’t know what you will get and have to make a deck that works with the cards that get shown, keeping in mind what might come next.
The Shards are an amazing way of creating surprises and making the game more dynamic, the player with the most experience and who adapts the best to what happens mostly wins the game.
However I do completely agree that some Shard effects are game breaking and need to be toned down.
Effects that deal X damage to all enemies, reduce the cost of cards, and other large effects that can change the game might be smart to announce 1-2 turns before they go into effect to remove some of the randomness.
Shard effects that change the whole deck into something that costs 2 more faeria (something with tear in the name?) is game breaking, since you had to make a deck from RNG chosen cards already, the order you draw the cards is RNG, and then also changing the whole deck you had to make at the start is over doing it.
I think a good balance would be to either create a deck at the start from scratch, or let the game make a deck that you have to play with not knowing what cards you have, doing both is overdoing it.

Also personally I don’t like creating a deck from scratch and putting work in something just to get it overhauled by RNG.

Balanced RNG is the best RNG

#15

Hey guys. Thanks for your thoughts, as always. :rubyfish:

It is true that we want Pandora to be a completely different experience from normal Constructed play. “Casual, exciting and unpredictable” definitely remain some of the core goals for player experience in this alternative game mode, but we have been absorbing the mountains of feedback coming our way and it’s clear there may be quite a few tweaks still necessary until Pandora reaches its final form.

We will certainly be continuing to modify Pandora throughout Early Access based on your continued observations and our own. We are currently scrutinizing every aspect of the Pandora experience: from the rank system, to the gameplay, to the reward structure. It’s all continually under the microscope. We’re zoning in on the best changes to make, and we hope to bring them to you soon.

#16

RNG in constructed faeria is at a really good level (like Magic the gathering and a lot less than HS) and this is why i like faeria so much.

i think RNG in pandora is way over the top, the draft is already random, and it’s good, but why adding more RNG?

i understand you don’t want to simply cut the artifact system but some adjustements can be made.

Some of the artifacts are game breaking, the one who deal 2 damages to every creatures, is way too strong against blue or yellow deck, because there is a lot of 2 life creatures in thoses colors. It happened to me a lot of time to lose the game despite the fact i was ahead just because i lost 2 creatures because of the 2 damages to all despite the fact 2 two-life creatures is not a big commitment.
lower the damage to 1 to every creatures will be a good step in the right direction.

the artifact who give +2/+2 to everithing is really bad to, it really harm red (who is probably the worst color for me in pandoria), and make events like drain life, seifer wrath and falcon dive a lot worst (if not useless) than without the +2/+2. even +1/+1 would be as bad, removing completely this artifact will improve a lot pandora quality.

Finally, the last broken artifact is the one who give +1/+1 5 times to a random creature you control, i won games i was supposed to lose just because i draw that card during my turn and played it first and lost games where i was leading just because my opponent draw and played that card first, the effect, like the 2 artifacts above, is completely game breaking and often completely change the outcome of a match. Those 3 artifacts are what i call really bad RNG. i suggest to simply remove this artifact too.

For the others artifacts, i don’t have too much complain about (even if i would really like pandora whitout artifacts.
But i have an idea who can greatly improve the gameplay of pandora :
When a player reveal an artifact, the effect should be seen by both players, but should only occur at the end of the next turn of the player who revealed the artifact. This way, each player will always have a full turn to adjust to the random effect who occur. Instead of gamebreaking RNG, this will add a lot of strategy to pandora by allowing players to react to the RNG. This new system, while keeping the artifact system, will greatly improve pandora. (in all case just remove the 3 artifacts i talked about above because even with a delay, they will still be gamebreaking).

The last thing i will change is in red, make seifer wrath common and groundshaker rare for example, it will help improving red decks quality, because for the moment unlike other colors where key cards can be easily obtained (Elderwood Embrace, Frogify, Wind Soldier, etc are all common), In red you can’t perform well in pandora with a full red deck because red key cards are epics (firestorm, bomb slinger, groundshaker). this change will help in constructed too, too much good epics cards needed in red.

#17

Receiving 6f after a time his a good idea to speed up the game.
But a lot of shard’s effects are to strong and can drastically change the issue of the game:

  1. the shard who deals 2 damage to all creatures: yellow deck insta loose the game. But it’s been long since I have not seen this shard. She was removed?
  2. +2/+2 to all creatures. The player who have a little advantage has 90% to win the game. Furthermore, choking sand becomes useless, Sharra Dragonslayer becomes OP. Direct damage becomes less strong, …
    +1/+1 is enough and +0/+1 can be good too.
  3. Half power and HP: the player who keep mana to play a big creature won the game. Remove this shard.
  4. Feast: the first player who plays feast has a very bid advantage specially if he has only 1 creature.
    2 times +1/+1 for 1f is good.
  5. The 6/6 dragon: the first player who plays the dragon has a big advantage: he can trade a creature, boost the dragon to trade the other dragon, …
    a 3/3 dragon for 2f is good.
  6. +4/+4 to a creature: only yellow and blue deck can easily manage big creature.
    +2/+2 for 1f is good.
  7. +3f: the player who receive 3f first has advantage.
    +2f is enough.

For me, the best shard is the “no effect” shard.

When a player reveal an artifact, the effect should be seen by both players, but should only occur at the end of the next turn of the player who revealed the artifact.
–> another good idea.

#18

Pandora is ok-its quite easy too get 5 wins(at this amount you likely gona get refund of your run) IF YOU DONT PICK BAD CARDS. Dont think like in constructed. CZ realy every run in arena i meet 1 or 2 guys with some retarded cards and was all like “jesus dude why the fck you picked that? what did you expect to achive with this garbage?”. Realy guys if you grab lots of combo peases and then got rekted cz you dont have combo activator or something dont blame rng blame urself. Only rng i dont like is about value cards-i have lost count how many times i fight vs guys who have 3 LEGENDARIES while i have 1 or none.

ps
this post dedicated to all people above,people who try to make non buff based combo packs in pondora and people who think Farm Boy is good card to pick…

pss
pro tip-afraid of random shards? pick more buffs and removals! BAM SUDENLY SHARDS DONT MEAN THAT MUCH! CRAZY ISNT IT?

#19

I’ll try to stay civil, but the way you talk doesn’t really push me this way, so …

Firstly, Pandora may be easy when you play a few runs, as you get matched with new players. If so, lucky for you. I don’t know how many games you’ve played, but matchmaking relies on your results, so the more you win, the harder it gets. Personnally, I began by big streaks of 10+ wins, and now I barely scratch the 5-6 :sweat_smile:

Then, you’re saying “Why you picked that garbage ?” Well, there’s an obvious answer : it’s a draft, if you have choice between garbage cards, or cards that have a bad land requirement for you (i.e. a tricolor splash), you will choose one of the firsts. Many times, I just facepalm at seeing 5 bad choices, then 5 good choices, but that’s the way draft goes… this is just to say that you may be a good player and still draft bad cards, that’s part of the deal :rolling_eyes:

About your statement of buffs and removals … you make it sound easy, but when I get 3 of each, I already feel like I’ve drafted a good deck, and shards can still wreck you despite all that :angry:

Finally, Combo is as good a strategy as any other (actually better than random value picks), as long as combo pieces can achieve something on their own. And farm boy is actually not a bad card to pick, if there is nothing else.

PS : PS = Post Scriptum, so second PS is PPS (Post Post Scriptum), not PSS :wink:

#20

Thats the problem. Its hard even imagine draft that may look so bad that Farm Boy looks great(cz honestly yeah its good for gatherin faeria but after first 4-5 draws its just one card draw skip for no good reason at all). If draft dictates you now to choose one good but something among bad, pick not the best of the worst but something what at least maybe be usefull with cards you already picked. Or at least something what have same land color as most of ur cards.

Combo buff is good strategy cz it cannot be ruined by draft(yeah ofc there is chance what you will draw NO buffs and removals at all but thats high above average unluck).

You may say that buffs are good strategy as any over? Yes but it realy best strategy in pandora since it most rng proof imho. And back to Farm Boy-there is cards what are realy bad and have no excuze to be pick. Sometime you have to pick even aditional land-type card cz other 4 sucks. But realy its either this or every game you gona pray what rng will smile upon you and next shard will be good for you and not for your enemy.