What cards will/should be nerfed/buffed in the next balance patch?

Balance Discussion
#1

Just wondering what the general opinions are.

It seems they went too far with Doomsday? Does anyone use the new Lord of Terror?

What cards do you think are OP, or should be buffed to see more play?

#2

Personally, I think Aurora Mythmaker is way overstated. 4 mana for 7/7 (6/6 plus 1/1 but that 1/1 is versitle and can be used for collecting). The only other card that comes close is Garudan, which even then is only 4 mana for 6/6 (10 mana minus 6 mana firestorm leaving you with a 4 mana 6/6 bod).

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#3

You need at least a 1/1 for Aurora to transform into 6/6 so 4 faeria gives you 6/6 at most, without any additional movement ability or special effect. Garudan is better in this regard with flying and charge 2 as well, but Aurora is more versatile and easy to play with its cheap cost, you can buff any creature.

#4

Bear in mind that transforming an existing creature into a 6/6 means that its ready to attack and trade the moment you drop Aurora. Thats why Aurora can cause massive swings in matches. I’d prize that over Garudan’s charge 2 and flying, which, while impressive, but don’t matter that much in most matches.

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#5

But the cheap faeria cost, plus that it basically gives you another farmer makes Aurora kinda OP.
You get a lot of value for 4 faeria

#6

I think Lord of Terror doesnt fit to the theme of Red. It’s kinda a weird card that currently has no place in any red deck.
Other than that I think Krog could be buffed. It’s really unplayable right now.

And at last I think the Yak cards are way to underpowered. Sad.

#7

yeah it’s not really fair that blue gets such a game-swinging legendary like that =p

and with garudan, at least you often get kind of a cue that it might be played when all of the sudden they’re saving to 10+ mana.

I think oradrim monk needs to lose his haste -_-;;

#8

What about Triton Banquet?

+1/+1, Jump for 3 faeria. Campfire is 1 faeria so Jump ability costs 2 faeria. Seems a bit expensive?

It’s a very good ability but Khalim’s Training with +1/0 Flying, Charge 2 only costs 1 faeria, so Triton Banquet seems expensive in comparison.

Battle Toads only cost 4 faeria and you get 2 jump creatures. Seems to limit Triton Banquet for pinch situation or big, slow creatures like Colossus.

#9

I think Triton Banquet is good. Jump is really powerful, better than dash or fly.
The ability to jump two tiles even over an enemy is worth 2 faeria in my opinion :slight_smile:

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#10

Good point, I forgot you can jump over enemy.

Watched another deck doctor today and in this one, Triton Banquet is included in a mono-red deck. The 1 lake requirement makes it very flexible and it could be included with less mobile deck to give opponent a nasty surprise. 3 faeria is worth it then.

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#11

IMHO the flat AoEs (X damage to all, not hellfire) are too OP.
Firestorm and Garudan should do 1 less damage, with their cost the same.

Adding Garudan to my deck has majorly increased my win rate. When used against me it’s usually GG.

Others are (in order):

  • Frogify (way too cheap - should be 4 blue 6 faeria IMHO - it routinely wins me games - as valuable as last nightmare).
  • Soul Eater (should only proc when in hand, not in deck. In long games this becomes 5 faeria for 15-25/15-25).
  • Last Nightmare (too cheap, I’d say add 1 faeria).
  • Ruunin (without frogify or magda’s rose it’s OP in long games - I’d say change last words to +2/+1).
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#12

Ruuin is OP? It’s rated in the worst Legendary tier. It doesn’t really get good until its fourth reincarnation.

I agree more or less with your other suggestions. I was thinking it’s strange that Firestorm costs less than Hellfire, but can deal more damage. Garudan is powerful, but doesn’t necessarily win games alone. Frogify is OP, yeah I feel that way too.

#13

this green/yellow sacrifice is insane and virtually impossible to beat (unless you are a rush direct-to-orb aggression player, really no chance in hell of beating this deck.)

#14

Just because a card is good, does not make it broken. Your personal results do not determine the objective reality of whatever situation you are in. Playing around cards is a thing. You’re not the first and you won’t be the last to complain about cards being broken before trying to figure out if you did something wrong, and how your play could improve and adjust to improve your matchups with these cards. This post does not just apply to you, but everyone who makes pointless complaints that add nothing constructive or reasonable to a conversation about game balance. Saying “should” after making a claim doesn’t constitute evidence.

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#15

why even have a ‘balance forum’ if half these guys are just going to nag you for having an opinion?

nag nag nag.

#16

Are you aware the same has been said about you? Mayhaps it would be good to reflect on that.

#17

Maybe some of you should consider some more criterion to judge cards. Let’s discuss of the weaknesses of these “OP” cards.

  • Aurora : it requires 2 lakes and 4 faeria : for one more than the piper you can buff up to 5/5, but it has little downsides : you can’t buff big units, it she can’t buff herself. Which means that you can only use it if you have another unit, therefore her cost isn’t that low. A strong card, though.

  • Garudan : it surely is overwhelmingly powerful against blue or yellow, as most of their creatures commonly played have 3 health or less. As red rarely plays so expensive cards, it can be foreseen, but it doesn’t mean you can shield yourself from it, which is a real problem. As waiting to reach 10 faeria is no longer as punitive as it used to be, it might be too strong as you get a firestorm, which is often welcome, an a 6/6 charge 2 flying body. The fact that it can be played alone in mono-blue or mono-green, however, hints us of a problem. Before, I’d have said it was a strong, but a deserved reward for having reached 10 faeria, but with the recent windfall nerf I think it might be too rewarding. Maybe unable him to gather faeria, as the dune drake ?

  • Krogg is a joke. Really. But with the windfall and stormspawn nerf buffing him might make purple bargain viable again.

  • oradrim monk is good as it is : for 3 and a condition (your land is near enough, no taunt) you get a card drawn and a 2/1 body (and 2 damage to the opponent). It is strong if it stays alive, but it rarely happens with 1 life. No need to nerf it.

  • triton banquet is nice as it allows easy mobility and a slight buff in otherwise slow decks. Seems decent.

  • frogify : it might seem strong to newcomers, just as last nightmares, but you usually don’t take into consideration 2 things : first, as long as your opponent doesn’t land big threat, it is a dead card. And dead card are a real obstacle to your victory. Drawing a frogify instead of a shifting tides has cost me many games. It means that you won’t have 4 cards in hand, but 3 + 1. And running 3 frogify might seem strong, but it is more often than not an handicap. Second, it doesn’t make the unit disappear, and it gives it jump. Which mean that it won’t save your 1/2 life units, but it also means that is becomes an efficient harvester and a potential target for aurora or elderwood embrace, which is not really what you want. For these reasons, frogify is balanced, or more accurately can’t be nerfed.

  • Last nightmare : Same as above, and as it doesn’t leave any creature it costs 2 more. It means that it can’t be played at any turn, and therefore it seems fairly priced for a most of the time dead card.

  • Soul eater : it takes a long time fot it to reach such stats, but for a 6 land bicolor card, seems fair as it gives GY sacrifice a winning condition (as most champions) where it most often lacks card advantage. It can be even more easily dealt with now, with voice of truth (it’s only a 1/1, remember). The time (and land investment) it takes to be efficient make it fair-priced.

  • Ruunin : Too much tempo loss, and you can only play it every other turn. Becomes strong in the long run, but too slow, and useless against blue (clearly explained here : Ruunin the Relentless buff?)

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#18

thing about frogify, if you have a 6f creature and play a 3f buff on it, that’s 9f 2 card investment that frogify turns to mush for only 4f. Immediately killing the frog then is usually not a problem for mono-blue, that easily fills the board with jumpers. (but I guess the lesson is that you shouldn’t buff bigger creatures vs blue.)

For only 4 mana, I don’t see it ever as a dead card, but almost always guaranteeing an edge in board control. With a little bit of card draw in synergy (lore thief,) I certainly would not have any problems running x3 frogify.

But I am not really invested in nerfing the card. I just think it is stonger than you think.


however
 this crazy green/yellow sacrifice deck with soul-eater
 it is insane. There is a guy rank 2 (probably higher now,) playing it, and I think entering a match-up with him is an auto-loss for me.

Maybe his is simply a strong ‘counter-deck’ to my own main deck, and I think he would be susceptible to direct-to-orb aggression decks (if he doesn’t pull a shaytan assassin/fodder combo early draw
) but I think there is something wrong with that deck.

it runs something like:

village elder
bloomsprite
shaytan assassin
bone collector
(that 2f sacrifice another card to make a 5/2 creature)
last nightmare
soul drain?
soul eater


something along those lines, anways.

can you comment on this hand? maybe give some advice on beating it, in case I am missing something obvious? 
best I can hope for is charge right in, which is really contrary to my defensive-oriented deck


#19

Frogify’s big other bonus is removing last word:

  • Stormspawn - instant 10 faeria lost.
  • All those give +X/+Y on death (eg Oakling) cards - bonus lost.
  • Tarum - saves all land.
  • Plague Bearer - saves all your low HP units.
  • Burns.
  • Ruunin.

I’ve almost never had a time when Frogify or Last Nightmare felt dead. It’s usually the opposite. There’s almost always something that valuable to kill.

Some of my balance issues were really just long game balance issues. I guess you could argue that they’re therefore situational, as they’re not useful on short games. However, I don’t feel like there should be hard counters against short or long games, because game length is too big a category.

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#20

ooooh yeah
 last word
 great mention


In respect, I think Last Nightmare is a fair card at 6f 3d, and I use it myself at x2. I think the fact that I use it at x2 instead of x3 is fairly indicative that it is not OP, (though definitely no question that frogify goes to x3.)